Superman: Truth, Justice, and the Anti-American Way?

[Solera0]

Eric just merged these two topics, Hakaider since we already had one.

It's good seeing you here. How's your health?

[Hakaider]

Thanks for merging it, Solera. I didn't know that there was already a topic about it.

As for my health...long story. Don't want to say it in public here. (Ren knows about it though.)

[Cousi]

Farnham - why was Superman even at that rally? That's the politics I'm talking about. As David said, its inconsistent with the character as previously portrayed.

Superman has ALWAYS been the truly OUTED undocumented alien! Now the interesting problem is that Clark Kent would still be considered an American citizen. Interesting conscience and legal problems there.. but NOTHING that would, I think, make for an interesting story line.

I agree completely. That would make a great subject for a novel, not a graphic novel.

Here's an excerpt from what A Weekly Standard blogger said about Goyer's rewriting of Superman:

What does 'citizen of the Universe' even mean?"

"Will Superman now adhere to the Tamaran code of honor?" writer Jonathan Last lamented, "Will he follow the Atlantean system of monarchy? Does he believe in liberté, égalité, fraternité, or sharia? Does he believe in British interventionism, or Swiss neutrality? You see where I'm going with this: If Superman doesn't believe in America, then he doesn't believe in anything."

This hits on it exactly. Superman as a character is about much more than just his powers. He's been the ultimate in nature vs nurture and an intregal part of his character, what makes him as Batman said "the best of us", is his unfailing belief in the the inherent good of the US CITIZENS. He has at times railed against the government, but he has always seen himself (again, as previously portrayed) as representing what is best in the people of the US. This flies in the face of all that history, if you'll pardon the pun. What exactly is a Superman without his grounding and motivating beliefs?

I love comics. They are entertainment and I understand that. In the bigger picture though, they are our legends. They form our social conscious and conscience as much as the stories of Hercules, Achilles and Ulysses formed the social conscious and conscience of ancient Greece. They influence children as they grow up. I am the man I am today in part because of the comics I read as a kid back then.

In any media be it a comic, a radio show, a movie or a television show, the writers have a duty to be consistent with the character as previously portrayed. It is one thing to show a character growing and changing shaped by the events in their virtual lives, but it another thing altogether to make a character do something purely for the headlines or the impact doing so has on the public. This is irresponsible stewardship of an American icon, plain and simple. THAT is what gets my goat. Superman has always been hyper conscious of his image and avoided doing things while as Superman because of it. That has been portrayed in conversations Clark Kent has had with Bruce Wayne and others that are aware of his secret ID.

If David Goyer wants to demonstrate his hatred of the US, he's a creative guy; he can create a character that is a hero of epic proportions (Superman is not the most powerful hero in DC's stable, nor does he have to be) that espouses a liberal agenda, he is free to do so. I would even encourage him to do so. One of the things I loved about the Green Lantern/Green Arrow comics in the 70s and 80s was that GL was a staunch conservative and GA was a stanch liberal yet they were great friends. When it was revealed that Speedy was a heroin addict (way back in the 70s), GL stood by him and helped him deal with it. There are ways of getting your message across while still being loyal to the characters you use.

[Hakaider]

Personally, I think David Goyer just wants to use Superman as his own personal soapbox.

Oh yeah, Goyer had Superman blasting God as well in that issue. As for the DC Comic editors, they probably thought that it will sell volumes if they let Goyer do what he wants.

Here's the lame excuse that DC's co-publishers Jim Lee and Dan DiDio said after they caught the heat from the fans regarding Goyer's twisting of Superman:

"As a character and an icon, he embodies the best of the American Way. Superman, like his U.S. citizen alter-ego, Clark Kent, remains as always, committed to his adopted home and his roots as a Kansas farm boy from Smallville."

(Really Jim Lee? You just contradicted yourself by saying that Superman is committed to his "roots", but you let Goyer turn him into an anti-American? Riiiiight...)

The man who destroyed Superman-Writer David Goyer


From Action Comics Issue #900 (Totally out of character for Superman)



And this is the Superman that David Goyer hates to see:



And sorry...I just couldn't resist putting this this one in:

[Farnham]

Good question, Cousi. Why was he there?

Well, I know you Americans get a lot of flak for "exporting culture" or being "the world police". But damnit, if I have to choose between those classic American values or some of the values I see espoused by other ideologies--then it's no contest. USA all the way.

In this instance, though, we enter a debate on American values--the American Way, that is--and their foreign policy. Why was Superman at that rally? I believe that the answer is two fold. First, he is there because that action is a reflection of American values (standing up for the right of a people to oppose a tyrant). Second, he was there because American policy dictated that they were not there (in the context of this story) despite it being the right thing to do.

Foreign policy can really only take 3 paths:

1) Isolationism.
2) A foreign policy that is placating to other nations as to not upset anyone (which was the tendency under Clinton and to some extent, Obama)
3) A foreign policy founded in values of a nation.

Socialist nations--like my own-- don't seem to mind exporting their values in their foreign policies, and yet the same people crap all over the Americans for doing the exact same thing.

We all know that the Government sometimes--and perhaps not intentionally--brings forward policies that are not akin to the values of the American people. It is in those times that Superman chooses to act anyway for what is right, and in doing so, reminds us that our policy should, in my opinion, fit into Option 3.

So, I'll say it again--political? Absolutely. But I don't see this as anti-American--quite the opposite in fact. If however one is coming from a more isolationist point of view, I can understand why one wouldn't feel the same way.


Regards
Craig

[Cousi]

That's a good question. I would argue against an isolationist stance being behind the feeling of anti-Americanism, but that would distract from my main point which is this:

With all the story lines the writer could have chosen, why did he do this? He could have had Superman dealing with the fallout of the world-changing Brightest Day storyline. He could have had Superman dealing with the after affects of his walk across America. There are literally limitless stories Goyer could have chosen to write. He chose to take it to the political level. Why? To prove a point? To show how clever he is? To 'bring it to the next level' as they like to say? To play "what if there really were superheroes"? If Superman had really existed since the mid 70s as current continuity suggests, then there would never have been a Sept 11, 2001. The whole world would be drastically different than it is now, including terrorism.

I pay attention to politics. I am politically aware and I understand what is going on in the world and how the US fits into it. I am aware of our shortcomings and our strengths. I read comics as a break from all of that. If I want to read a more "heady" comic, I'd much rather they follow through on the idea of "what would the world be like if there really were superheroes" which is part of the Watchmen comic. That world was drastically different because of the existence of Dr Manhattan. The existence of Superman or Batman or Wonder Woman or Aquaman and the subsequent backstories (like the existence of Paradise Island and an entire underwater civilization complete with magic and high technology). Heck, even the existence of Lex Luthor would totally change the world. The bottom line is, if you're going to go that route then don't say "what would Superman do in this situation" because the real question is "how would the world be different with Superman in it"?

Goyer is a talented guy that enjoys a certain following. He could create a new superhero as I said before. He could write a novel. He could make a movie and be the next Michael Moore. Instead, he chose to use an American icon to demonstrate how he feels a "real American" would deal with something. But again - it goes against the grain of the character. Superman has never in the past gotten involved in politics. He has actively avoided them. He is painfully aware of the attention he brings to any situation. With that in mind, it is out of character for him to participate in a protest. Where was he when Black Adam was pulling people apart in Qandaq? Where was he when there were riots in Denmark over a comic of Mohammad? If he didn't get involved in either of them, why would he get involved now?

Because it's a pet interest of David Goyer, and that is my problem with it.

[Farnham]

Cousi,

Fully understandable, and I can definitely appreciate where you are coming from on that one. It's impossible to separate the intent or back history of an artist with the art that they create; in this case you are probably quite correct regarding Goyer's intentions.

I've only recently fully "gotten" what makes a good comic since I bought an iPad. I downloaded an app that is kind of like an e-reader for comic books, but it allows frame-by-frame reading. Sometimes, in larger frames, it'll go from focal point to focal point. You have no idea what will happen in the next frame or where a conversation is going.

It's amazing how different the experience is when you take in a comic or graphic novel in this way. When you flip open a book, you can't help but see, even if only for a moment, the pictures that are coming up--the shocked look on a characters face 3 panels over, an explosion right in the last panel of the page, etc. And so, I found the traditional hardcopy comic reading to be not very exciting.

When you go frame by frame--it really is an experience. I've never before been so engaged or moved by a comic as I was by "the Walking Dead" series. The combination of the visual stimulation with the verbal narrative, combined with the frame-by-frame technology, made it incredible.

I'm completely caught up on that whole series as of about a week ago, and I still think about it every day.

And, this brings me to the point--I look on comics as a thought provoking medium. One can spend all day thinking about allegorical links from Zombies to Society, from morality to loyalty, family, friends, etc. The Walking Dead has made me think about ALL of these things in a big way, the way I don't think any other medium could.

On the flip side, I've also downloaded the Supernatural comics series--which is really popcorn Comic entertainment. A couple of brothers and their dad, hunting monsters and demons all around middle America in a sweet old car. I am reading that one to take me AWAY from the depth and heavyness of The Walking Dead--I need a break from it.

So, Comics can be Escapist or they can be heavy. If the Supernatural comics took a turn for the Heavy--I would be sincerely disappointed as that is not what I look to them for. Just the same, the Walking Dead had a "mock" issue that actually really took me out of it for a bit and I didn't like that either--I didn't expect such a shift in gears.

Superman, I suspect, is much the same way for you. He's NOT a tool for public policy, and yet, this story is quite clearly a commentary on REAL policies that have REAL effects (at that point, whether it's anti-American or not doesn't really matter). If that's not what you want from a book or character, it'd be a shame to see it coming to pass.

Regards
Craig

P.S. The app, called Comixology, is available on iPhone too--and I highly recommend it. Issues are 2 bucks each, and are stored in "the cloud" so you can view them on any machine, including your laptop or desktops.

[GoldenLuck]

I read this while listening to these songs: God Bless America sung by Lee Greenwood and Kryptonite by Three Doors Down. Coincidence? I think not!!!!
I never really liked Superman: I thought he was just trying to hard to be a good, just American person. Being American is sticking up for what you think is right, and being yourself. But still at least Superman was still an American. Now...
Superman was a very nice AMERICAN hero. I don't know what is going through those editors' heads, but this is not what to do. If anything, this will DECREASE readers. With the Internet and movies and other technology, all comics have gone down unless they are, I don't know, 25+ years old.
Being American Citizen should be something people can be proud of. Not something they want to give up.
Also, if Superman is from that other planet (I don't know what it is) did he ever take that thing-a-bob to make him a citizen? Like I said, I never read but I think that would be a significant thing to put in the comics. Just saying...